Why people don't show up (and what we can do about it) with Matt Penniman, Cecilia Sepp, Stacy Averill, and Michelle Thompson-McCune

Behind the Episode
Written By Tom Lietz

This episode of Storylinking builds on the perspectives of Matt Penniman, Cecilia Sepp, Stacy Averill, and Michelle Thompson-McCune (pictured left to right.) They’re four thoughtful voices from our Storylinking community who bring clarity and insight to the challenging work of community engagement. Their collective experience offers us valuable reminders of how small steps, like building trust more intentionally, modeling vulnerability, and making ideas more tangible, can create spaces where people feel safe, valued, and ready to step forward.

“We’re social beings. It’s just nice to do hard things knowing you’re not doing it solo.”
— Michelle Thompson-McCune

This Storylinking episode started in the comment thread of a LinkedIn post.

I had shared some reflections about community engagement, expecting a few 👍👍 and hoping to help people like you find our episode featuring an interview with Chad Swan-Badgero. I was very pleasantly surprised when in that thread, a whole bunch of folks stepped forward and joined the conversation: sharing practical strategies, personal insights, and honest reflections about the challenges and opportunities of building engagement. It was exactly the kind of conversation I hoped Storylinking might spark: generous, grounded, and based on the collective experiences of our community.

Social media conversations can be ephemeral, but this was a really valuable thread I wanted to build on. So, I reached out to several members of the Storylinking community, inviting them to participate in an asynchronous interview using a platform called VideoAsk. It’s a simple video response tool I’ve used before, and what I like about it is that it lets people respond to questions in their own words and on their own schedules. And again, the responses I received back surprised me. They weren’t just a recap of our original LinkedIn discussion, but a whole new layer of insights with fresh voices joining the conversation.

Here are a few takeaways from those responses, as they play out in this episode. These are things I’ve experienced in bits and pieces myself over time, but I know that for me the voices in this episode helped to pull everything into clearer focus, reinforced by the collective wisdom of the Storylinking community.

Trust is built through small moments

In his responses, Matt Penniman shared something that resonated strongly with my past experience, describing trust not as an abstract goal but as something built through small, consistent commitments that are made and kept. As Matt explained:

“Trust takes time. It’s a repeated back-and-forth of making commitments and keeping them… something small, like a webinar that actually teaches something useful, is a first step toward building trust.”

This tracks directly with what I’ve experienced in storytelling and community-building projects, and what we’ve heard from others like researchers Jody Horntvedt and Eriks Dunens in past episodes. People don’t engage just because they care about an issue. They engage when they trust that they’ll be safe to participate and that we’ll follow through to make their participation meaningful. Small promises, kept consistently, help us gradually and authentically build meaningful connections toward shared goals.

Matt also emphasized the importance of honesty about fear, and how openly acknowledging our anxieties (and understanding those of others) is crucial for real connection. He used the example of adopting electric vehicles: how for some the fear of getting stranded on a long road trip, of facing an unknown without easy solutions, could be quite powerful. For others, the fear of climate change and its associated consequences might be a motivating factor. Our fears won’t always directly align, but if we can bring them to the surface and discuss them then we have an opportunity to build engagement that might otherwise be blocked by hidden barriers.

Vulnerability creates space for connection

Building trust and openly addressing hidden fears requires vulnerability, not only from community members but from those who lead and facilitate conversations. Cecilia Sepp and Stacy Averill both emphasized this role of modeling openness and participation to break down fear-based barriers. As Cecilia put it clearly:

“People are afraid to engage because they don’t want to say the wrong thing, to seem out of step".”

Stacy echoed this, highlighting the intentional effort required to create a safe environment:

“Having a facilitator who ensures everyone has an opportunity to speak helps pull quieter people forward.”

These two factors create a tension, and require balance. In some cases, it’s going to be our job to invite participation. At other times, if we’re brave enough to go first then our example will actually create space and cover for the next person. As Cecilia describes:

“One thing I personally do to get people to engage is set the example of engagement. If I am participating, I share my ideas or ask questions, because if people see someone else do it, they feel much more comfortable to do it themselves.”

When we show up honestly, acknowledge uncertainty, and share our genuine curiosity, we offer implicit permission for others to do the same. Vulnerability not so much about performing a ritual, but really about finding the right way to demonstrate openness so that others can step forward and connect meaningfully.

Engagement is something we have to build together

Michelle Thompson-McCune offered another critical reminder: abstract conversations can be intimidating, but tangible context can open doors. Michelle describes her approach as a designer, emphasizing the importance of co-creating something real:

“If you can bring the act of making right into the conversation that you're having with people, you invite them to become participants in the shaping and the making… They suddenly say, ‘Hey, I have agency over the way this is shaping up.’ And I have somebody who's actually actively listening to me and who is seeking out my expertise and my advice, and I can see that coming to life right before my eyes.”

As a creative professional, I know some of my strongest and longest-lasting relationships have been built through collaborative activity. Making things together (especially when ideas are still rough or unfinished) acts as a bridge connecting not just our ideas, but our lived experiences. Even brief interactions become more meaningful if we’re willing to invite others into a creative process. Our actions can send a powerful signal: “I genuinely want to hear what you think.”

In her interview Michelle describes how she’s trying new things with remote collaboration, even sending out physical kits to support engagement in virtual meetings. I think her work is a great example of how we can all continue to innovate our approaches, even (and often because of) challenging circumstances.

Ultimately, engaging others isn’t just about getting people through the door, it’s about becoming a part of an activity that offers a real opportunity to other people, and participating together.

Try this: Experiments in building engagement

I like a sure thing, but the truth is, all creative undertakings are experiments to some degree. Everything we make evolves at least a little bit from planning to completion, and we never know how people will respond.

I would argue though, perhaps counterintuitively, that this uncertainty is liberating. We don’t have to know exactly how everything will play out. We just have to find our sandbox, and then start to experimenting together in that shared context.

With that in mind, I’d invite you to consider how you could put some of the lessons from this episode, experimenting with engagement in your world. Think of a specific moment or context in which you ask people to engage. Is there a meeting, an event, or even just an email you’re hoping someone will open and reply to? What’s one small change you could make in approaching that interaction, that might help build trust, ease fears, or provide a more clear and tangible path to participation?

Give something a try, see what happens, and build on it. And please let me know how it goes too! We’ll do more of these community episodes in the future, and I’d love to include your voice.

Thanks so much ot Matt Penniman, Cecilia Sepp, Stacy Averill, and Michelle Thompson-McCune for responding to my invitation and sharing your wisdom and insights. If you haven’t heard the full episode yet, I’d highly recommend hearing everything they have to say.

Listen to the full episode above, or subscribe to Storylinking on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform for more conversations that explore the power of storytelling to build community.

Additional Resources

Connect with Matt Penniman:

Connect with Cecilia Sepp:

Connect with Stacy Averill:

Connect with Michelle Thompson-McCune

Tom Lietz
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